是日報章繼續討論英政府在後九七香港的角色。陰謀論我不想談，我只想看證據。上次轉貼的英國解密檔案引來不少興趣，這兒再轉貼一份對香港前途十分重要的文件：麥理浩與鄧小平的會面紀錄。檔案編號是 FCO 40/1050 Visit of Sir Murray McLehose, Governor of HK, to China, March_April 1979。就讓我們重新去看，在香港前途問題上，中國和英國當時到底在想什麼，對香港普羅大眾的生活是否重視。看原文，比看昨天今天各方各派的修詞擺姿態要好。
SECRET
RECORD OF A CONVERSATION BETWEEN HE THE GOVERNOR OF HONG KONG AND HE VICE-PREMIER DENG XIAOPING AT THE GREAT HALL OF THE PEOPLE AT 1000 HOURS ON 29 MARCH 1979
HE Sir Murray MacLehose
HM Ambassador
Sir Y K Kan
Dr D C Wilson
Mr T J B George
HE Mr Deng Xiaoping
HE Mr Liao Chengzhi, Deputy Chairman of the Standing Committee of the NPC
HE Mr Li Qiang, Minister of Foreign Trade
HE Mr Song Zhiguang, Assistant Minister of Foreign Affairs
Mr Cui Mingtang, Western European Dept, MFA
After Initial courtesies, Deng Xiaoping said that the Governor had had talks with Li Qiang and would be speaking to Liao Chengzhi and Huang Hun, and could take up specific questions with them. He said that relations between Guangdong and Hong Kong were good, although some questions were difficult to solve. He understood that the people of Hong Kong were concerned about the future status of Hong Kong. China had a consistent policy : sovereignty over Hong Kong belonged to China. But Hong Kong had her own special status. People were concerned about the way out for the New Territories in 1997. This was still 18 years away. This was not a long time. There might be specific discussions by that time taking account of the circumstances of the day. Any solution of the status (of the New Territories) would have as its prerequisite that Hong Kong was part of China. But it could be said with certainty that, when the two sides discussed the question, China would respect the special status of Hong Kong. People were concerned about investment. The Chinese Government gave a clear assurance that, when there was a political solution, it would never affect investments.
2. Turning to Macao, Deng said that China had not taken over Macao and had not even raised the issue with the Portuguese. The UK would be aware also of China’s policy towards Taiwan. The Chinese Government had often said that the return of Taiwan would involve respecting the special status of Taiwan. There would be no change in the social system, nor would living standards be affected.
Taiwan could still enjoy a special status and local autonomy, and even her own armed forces, even though she would be part of China. There could never be two Chinas or one and a half Chinas. This was the Chinese position on Hong Kong and Macao as well as on Taiwan. This was a long standing policy. They had adopted it because they needed Hong Kong. The policy was beneficial to socialist construction and the four modernisations. It was as simple as that.
3. The Governor thanked Mr Deng Xiaoping for his welcome and for his remarks. His visit had arisen out of a meeting with Li Qiang in Hong Kong. Li had spoken of Hong Kong’s usefulness to China’s economy. There was a requirement for close cooperation. Talks in Guangzhou and in Peking had demonstrated that there was mutual benefit from cooperation on industry, transport and tourism. The Governor agreed with the Vice-Premier that Hong Kong was of benefit to socialist construction. Hong Kong was an unusual place with an extraordinary concentration of industrial capacity, commercial knowledge, tourism and communications. It had its problems. It was dependent on export markets and the economies of those countries. Trade promotion was of vital importance, and Sir Y K Kan had special responsibility for that. Hong Kong was dependent on China for water and he had discussed solutions to this problem in Guangzhou. The Governor was grateful for China’s help in this matter. There were also problems of land. Hong Kong was both over-crowded and mountainous. Reclamation to make land for new towns was necessary. But so long as investment continued there was the prospect of great prosperity. Each family in Hong Kong would consume US $100 of Chinese goods each month. There was much scope for other trade and for increased cooperation.
4. The Governor continued that the Vice-Premier had spoken of the long term future and had made the position very clear. That was a matter between the CPG and HMG. It was frequently said that the problem could be solved when the time was ripe. But Hong Kong faced an immediate problem, concerning the leases issued to people in the New Territories which ran into tens of thousands, and were being issued each month by the hundred. They were all written with a validity lasting only until June 1997. As the time of the leases shortened the clock ticked away. This would deter the sort of investment Hong Kong wanted (though not perhaps speculative investment). It was the subject of speculation. The Governor said that the matter was not relevant to the Chinese position on Hong Kong, but it increased his own problems. He had thought of something which he could do to solve the problem and which was not contradictory to China’s well known position. If this problem could be solved, the right sort of investment could be attracted to keep Hong Kong competitive in world markets. This would be of benefit to China as well as to the UK.
5. Concluding his opening remarks, the Governor mentioned immigration, saying that too many people were coming with or without permits. For some people to come in was good, but a surfeit caused indigestion. He had discussed the matter in Guangzhou and thought that in principle the matter could be solved. He would pursue it with the tlinistry of Foreign Affairs.
6. Deng Xiaoping said that the problem of people was fully understood. It could be solved in two ways. One was that China would adopt measures to reduce pressure on Hong Kong. This did not mean that she had not adopted measures; but the results had not been remarkable, and more effective measures would be taken. On the other hand it would be advisable for private investors to put more money into Guangdong and raise living standards there so that it was not necessary for people to go to Hong Kong. The Governor commented that he had discussed investment in Guangdong and considered that there should be some merging of interests between Hong Kong and Guangdong. Deng Xiaoping said that this assistance could adopt many forms : investment, joint ventures or compensation trading. There would always be some gap between Hong Kong’s living standards and that of Guangdong; but it could be narrowed. The question could only be solved with the realisation of China’s four modernisations. But part of the problem could be solved now. People near Hong Kong saw that the gap was too big, and it was natural for them to go, even without permission. Time was needed for the four modernisations. China had a big population problem and the management of 900 million people was more difficult than that of running Hong Kong. In discussing any problem, it was necessary to take account of many factors. He instanced Shanghai with a population of 10 million. It would be easy for Shanghai to develop like Hong Kong, but if this happened people would crowd into Shanghai. So China pursued development on a broader front. China had to adopt policies which paid attention to the overall situation.
7. The Governor commented that there was a long term and a short term problem. He would certainly encourage investors to help with the long term problem. If there was a profit involved then no encouragement would be needed. In the short term, as the Vice-Premier had said, measures would be necessary if the standard of living was not to be undermined. Shanghai was at least flat, whereas Hong Kong possessed no space.
8. Deng Xiaoping replied that Shanghai had reached saturation point and that Guangdong was also too big with insufficient employment. Investment would create employment and release pressure on Hong Kong. He said that China was considering legislation to protect the profits of investors. They would protect the interests of Chinese, Overseas Chinese and foreign investors. Outside investors could adopt their own management methods, which would be protected by law. They could assist with the marketing of Chinese goods. The Governor confirmed that he would encourage investors. He saw no problem at the official level which could not be solved through discussions.
9. Deng Xiaoping agreed that these issues could be pursued elsewhere. Reverting to the New Territories lease, he said that he formally requested the Governor to ask investors to put their hearts at ease. It was China’s long term policy to regard Hong Kong as a special case, no matter what political solution was reached by 1997. The Governor said that the problem could not be overcome by generalised assurances. What he had in mind was replacing the leases valid to 1997 with leases valid as long as Britain administered the New Territories. This would get rid of the date.
10. Deng Xiaoping commented that it would be best to avoid wording which mentioned continuing British administration. It would be better to say that, since the Chinese Government had expressed its political view, all would be well for investment. The future of Hong Kong was guaranteed, but he could not confirm that the political situation
would remain unchanged since that would affect the Chinese position. The Governor said that what he proposed did not affect the Chinese position. Deng Xiaoping said good. The Governor said he had many potential investors who were concerned not about the CPG’s attitude but about the date of the lease. He wanted no date. Deng Xiaoping declared that the Chinese position would not affect the interests of investors. To put it more clearly, in this century and in the beginning of the next century (this was originally translated as “in the next century") Hong Kong would be continuing with a capitalist system, while China was continuing with a socialist system. By 1997 China might take over Hong Kong. But this would not affect her economy. They had not taken over Macao so far. There were two solutions by 1997, to take Hong Kong over, or to allow present realities to remain. Whatever political solution was adopted, Investors would not be affected. The Governor said that what he proposed to do would not affect the Chinese position. All China needed to do was to acquiesce, or not to object. But he had to do something over the next year or two, if investment was to continue to come in. Deng Xiaoping said there would be nothing for the Chinese to do, and Cui Mingtang intervened that the UK only wished to abolish the 1997 date on the leases. Deng Xiaoping concluded that the key point was that investors should feel easy.
11. The meeting then closed with courtesies at 11am.
我不打算再轉發這些文件了。上次和學生在國立檔案館待的時間不是很長，只向他們介紹了幾份最重要的文件。當天閱覽室的人太多，沒能待太久。有興趣的記者朋友，可以自己去國立檔案館慢慢看，反正都是公開的。不過進入閱覽室之前，最後先有一些處理歷史文獻的經驗，否則一不留神破損了香港的歷史，可是大家都不想發生的事情啊！
Car and Pier 